Stop listening to Mel Gibson – stop confusing art and artists

Stop listening to Mel Gibson - stop confusing art and artists

Stop listening to Mel Gibson – stop confusing art and artists

The following is a transcript of Derryn Hinch, host of radio 3AW Melbourne, Australia, interviewing Human Behavior &

Relationship Expert and Clinical Hypnotherapist, Patrick Wanis Ph.D. about Mel Gibson’s meltdown and the assertion by Patrick Wanis that we need to stop listening to Mel Gibson and we need to separate the art from the artist.

Listen to this interview at:

Derryn Hinch: He’s an Australian Human Behavior and Relationship Expert and he’s a Clinical Hypnotherapist whose name is Patrick Wanis. He lives in the United States. And he has a different spin on the Mel Gibson meltdown and his foul behavior and what he has been doing in recent times. I just want you to listen to a few seconds of Mel Gibson about his latest rants and then I want to cross and talk to Patrick Wanis.

Derryn Hinch: Phew, okay, that was Mel Gibson. On the line now Patrick Wanis. Good afternoon.

Patrick Wanis: Good afternoon, Derryn. How are you?

Derryn Hinch: I’m good. Well, thanks. Having heard that rant, your theory, as I understand it, you think we should be separating the artist from the person [art] – that his sort of personal life should have nothing to do with our appreciation of what he does on the screen. Is that right?

Patrick Wanis: Yeah. The point I’m making here is that there is a huge difference between the art that one creates and the artist himself – that means his personal life. Today’s technology combined with human curiosity drives us to want to listen and learn every single sordid detail of that person’s life. But it doesn’t benefit us, Derryn.

Derryn Hinch: Well, I —

Patrick Wanis: What is the benefit that you and I have by knowing every detail of every dysfunction?

Derryn Hinch: Well, it confirms some of my worst thoughts about Mel Gibson. It confirms that, by hearing rants like that, and I’m probably the wrong person to talk to because I have never — have not seen one Woody Allen film since he ran off with his stepdaughter. For that reason, morally I find him a reprehensible person and I wouldn’t go to one of his movies.

Patrick Wanis: But if you follow that principle and you apply it to every artist, you’re not going to be watching a lot of television, you’re not going to be listening to a lot of music, and you’re definitely not going to be going to a lot of movies. Think of the biggest names in music, in arts, in entertainment; most of these people are dysfunctional and that’s part of the reason that they become artists. Look at Michael Jackson. Do you listen to his music?

Derryn Hinch: No. I wouldn’t –

Patrick Wanis: You have to say no.

Derryn Hinch: No, I wouldn’t – Michael Jackson, I wouldn’t go to Michael – when he was alive I wouldn’t have gone to a Michael Jackson concert after all that started to come out. I mean, there are levels obviously of when people have frailties and you say, ‘well, I will allow for that.’ But I mean, I can — let me be extreme. Adolf Hitler was a painter, was an artist. Would you have an Adolf Hitler painting hanging in your house?

Patrick Wanis: Well, I would think that we’d found out first, years before his art became famous.

Derryn Hinch: Well, no, it became famous – yeah, he actually – he made a living – a bit of a living as a poor artist in his youth.

Patrick Wanis: I think that’s a great example. So if you’re talking about someone to the extreme, and the extent of Adolf Hitler, yeah, you’re not going to look at his artwork. But what about Cecil B. DeMille; the greatest film director of all time who directed and produced “Samson and Delilah” and also “The Ten Commandments”? Now, he was a married guy. Derryn, he was a married guy who had serial mistresses. So if you follow that principle, you can’t watch those movies.

Derryn Hinch: Now, that’s a fair point. I mean if you – therefore, I mean Tracy and if you going to be that moralistic; Tracy and Hepburn who were a number but were never married. Now, I’m not going down that. I’m saying in the case of Mel Gibson – let’s get back to him for a second. He has form: he is anti-Semitic, he is a racist in my view; that line about “I hope you get gang raped by a pack of niggers” is one of the most disgraceful things I’ve ever heard. I hope he does get run out of Hollywood. I think he’s a disgrace.

Patrick Wanis: Well, I think what’s going to happen is that this is going to backfire – the audio recording is obviously going to damage him and has already started to damage him, but, it’s also going to damage Oksana, his ex-girlfriend, who has released this audio tape and it’s going to damage her for other reasons. But I think it’s simply a point here that we have to say there is a difference between the art and the artist. Most artists become artists whether they are singers or performers or even actors because they come from a place of dysfunction.

Derryn Hinch: Well – no, that’s too broad. That’s too broad. I know of a lot of actors; I have been married to an actress – who are not dysfunctional and they’re not out there, and this racist and this sexist…I mean, Gibson, he ticks every box. I mean, there’s nothing, nothing to defend this man.

Patrick Wanis: Well, I’m not defending what he’s doing. Obviously, everything he’s done is wrong. There’s no way to defend what he’s done because he’s made homophobic remarks, he’s made sexist remarks.

Derryn Hinch: Yeah.

Patrick Wanis: He’s made racist remarks and he’s made threats of death and threats of violence. We cannot justify that. All I’m saying is, do we need to know all of the details? You know, here in the U.S. people have been listening to this recording – the entire recording over and over and over again. I don’t think it benefits us emotionally. I don’t think it benefits us psychologically.

Derryn Hinch: Well, I think — we’ll just —

Patrick Wanis: And I don’t think it benefits us artistically.

Derryn Hinch: Well, I think it tells us about who and what he is. Well, Mr. Wanis, we run out of time. I thank you for yours.

Patrick Wanis: Thanks, Derryn.

Derryn Hinch: Thank you. Patrick Wanis, the Human Behavior Expert based in the United States.

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